Forum ban appeal (email) - DragonSlayer2189

Please Note: The TotalFreedom Forum has now been put into a read-only mode. Total Freedom has now closed down and will not be returning in any way, shape or form. It has been a pleasure to lead this community and I wish you all the best for your futures.

    1. Minecraft name: DragonSlayer2189

    2. Discord username and discriminator (username#discriminator) (if any):

    DragonSlayer2189#3873

    3. Approximate date of the ~indefinite~ forum ban:

    The FSR was made on the 29th of November, and was approved on the 2nd of December

    4. Reason for your ~indefinite~ forum ban (it should be stated when you try to join the server, do not lie, we can check; if one is not stated, state why you think you were banned)

    Impersonation

    Full story:

    Quote

    ! Essentially, I was watching one of Lyicx's streams, and he had put me in timeout (a thing you can do as a mod of any YouTube chat where the person who is in timeout can't send messages and stuff for a while), so as a joke, I decided to log into YouTube from one of my other emails, since I had never logged in from the email I chose, I had to make a new account and pick a channel name, and as a joke, I thought it would be funny to name the account Nathaniel428, I did that, went back to lyicx's streams had a few laughs, and then decided to go a bit further with the bit, choosing to change the name of my alt, The_W4tch3r or Mythic_Emma, to Nathaniel428, and then under the same email I made the YouTube account with, I also made a forum account, posted a joke thread thing in the introductions board and then responded a bit to things on there, and then went to bed. The following morning, I woke up and checked my phone, to find a bunch of discord messages saying that they were disappointed in me, and as such I was very confused, so I checked the forum and found I was suspended and that a sanction request was made.
    ! You see, I pride myself on being very knowledgeable about most of the going-ons in the server, I know most of the policies and also know about other things related to behind the scenes server stuff. But y'know lots of times, you forget the little details in things, and as some who does have many issues remembering those little things (stupid ADHD and shit), I end up forgetting the minor things very quickly. As such, I honestly had no fucking clue that Impersonation was a thing that could get me suspended at all, let alone an instant indefinite suspension, it's a similar case with the forums, I genuinely didn't know about the rule, as it is not in the main part of the text and is only a little small side note near the very bottom of the thread.

    TL;DR I did it as a joke, and had no clue/forgot that it was a rule at all

    5. Do you agree to follow our server rules, the rules in place on the forum, and all the conditions stated above?

    Yeah, I've also taken the liberty of rereading over all of the conduct policy and forum posting guidelines

    i vouch

    Changing to neutral on the basis that you did sort of ban evade when the strawberry thing happened and this ban happened a week ago.

    but i do think a permban is a bit much now i look back at it

    i am now changing back to vouch. because permban bit far for the actual thing he did. and it would be harsh to single him out over something others did.

    assrix, assryx, asterisk, *

    awesomeist tf blokey

    Vouch. Sure, you bypassed, and it's only been a week, but honestly that shouldn't matter given that the reason for a permban was essentially a formality. First of all, I have zero sympathy for Nathaniel and no actual harm was done by changing an alt name. Plus, it's a gigantic hypocrisy anyway, since people have done this in the past and not been punished for it at all:

    To me, this falls well within the bounds of a joke without any ill intention. I'm also certain the same thing has happened on the forum with joke accounts and ridiculous nicknames, but I don't want to sift through the old forums.

    Object. You should have also been permbanned if anyone had bothered to fill out the request.

    One of your main duties as an staff member is to read over the incredibly clear admin conduct policy and follow it, if you "had no clue/forgot" how can you be in-trusted to not break them again?

    @Darth#2922 No offense this shows gross ineptitude from the ECD team lmao. Dragon has been indefinitely suspended twice within the past couple of months. He should be permbanned as well according to the rules, especially factoring in his past violations. What else does he have to do to get his master builder rank removed? MB isn't exactly the most prestigious role either, so its very weird that you're allowing him to keep it.

    On top of already being indefinitely sanctioned from the forums, he bypassed his ban by logging onto a different account. How many "fuck ups" do we allow? Are you sure we aren't letting our friends get away with things that they shouldn't be?

    Vouch.

    I personally believe the severity of his punishment was unfair and uncalled for, given the circumstances.

    The first problem is a matter of consistency and transparency. In the past, we have been very lenient on how we should punish players who change their username to one resembling another member of the community. For example, in late 2019 I jokingly changed my alternate account's username on 3 separate occasions to names that resembled the forum display name and former Minecraft username belonging to Wilee (you know him as Polaris Seltzeris). Under this alternate account, I would occasionally use certain administrative commands.

    Examples:
    https://videogamesm12.me/rPTxQ91E0raH.png
    https://pastebin.com/3yHqP27X

    The severity of any offenses like this should be higher, and yet I was not sanctioned for this. This leniency of the enforcement of this rule in the past is likely what led many people in the community (including Dragon) to believe that behavior like this is okay. The sudden and out-of-the-blue decision to indefinitely ban a member of the community with zero warning (despite the leniency of how it was enforced in the past) sets a bad precedent for how similar punishments will be enforced in the future.

    Two things should have occurred that would have set a better precedent than just flat out banning him:

    • Dragon should have been given a strong warning for his actions instead of outright banning him. If he continues, then ban him.
    • An announcement should have been made noting that the leniency of the enforcement of this rule is no longer in effect and that future offenses will result in an indefinite ban.

    image.png

    @videogamesm12#2928
    "An announcement should have been made noting that the leniency of the enforcement of this rule is no longer in effect and that future offenses will result in an indefinite ban."

    This is not necessary at all. Rules are rules, and don't change if you just fail to read them. This rule "announced" when the forum posting guidelines, admin conduct policy, and conduct policy was created.
    You wouldn't announce that posting porn is now a perm bannable offense, because it just always has been. Impersonation hasn't been allowed, ever.

    Now do people get away with breaking the rules? Yes. In your case, you got away with it. You should have been banned and suspended as well. We missed it. Mistakes happen, and you can't expect the executives to be perfect. Does this give leeway to Dragon to impersonate because you got away with it? No. If someone got away with griefing, does that mean I can do it? No. Do admins have to announce that "Hey, griefing now gets you banned!" ? No. They don't. Its always been a rule.

    Dragon created a fake "Nathan" account on YouTube. He also went a step further, and renamed his alt account to Nathaniel428. He went ANOTHER step forward, creating a forum account and then posting on it with the full intention of pretending to be him. This is impersonation. It really does not matter that you got away with it. Rules are rules. They are very clearly listed on the Forum posting guidelines thread. There's only 4 bannable offenses. You cannot possibly miss that.

    There's also just the fact that it should be common sense? You cannot cite "it sets a bad precedent" when its following the correct procedures.

    @zeseryu#2930 You missed my point. My point wasn't that Dragon shouldn't have been banned because I wasn't. I was only giving an example there.

    My point is that the leniency caused by the constant lack of enforcement of the rule altogether (punishments weren't given to those who committed similar offenses) by the people who were supposed to enforce it is what led people to think that it was okay. It was this leniency that should have been corrected.

    Was Dragon in the wrong? Absolutely. However, I think that the handling of Dragon's situation was poorly executed too.

    Also, the "bad precedent" was referring to the concept of allowing an offense to be committed consistently and then suddenly indefinitely banning people for it without warning.

    image.png

    @Darth#2934

    Why say "Lykhant and I decided not to remove him from MB for a similar reason" when you decided not to remove him because he didnt break any policies regarding the MB policy. Are you trying to say the "similar reason" is that he also didnt violate the forum posting guidelines? Because if thats the case, then you're just wrong.

    @videogamesm12#2933

    I simply do not believe people seeing you impesronate Wilee gave them the thought that they could also go through with impersonation. The rules are pretty clear. They also have not changed. Refer to my scenario if someone gets away with griefing, that does not make it okay for me to grief as well. The rule is there, and its everyone's responsibility to read the rules, especially as an admin. There is no "leniency" when the infraction and punishment is clearly listed. The "leniency" you experienced came from you not getting caught. Dragon got caught, was indefinitely suspended, a forum sanction request was filled and accepted.

    I do not see how you can argue in good faith that the situation was handled poorly, when Dragon got his correct punishment according to the Forum guidelines. You can argue that its too harsh, but you cannot argue that he broke the rules, and as a result got punished. If you want to loosen up on the punishment, this isnt the thread to suggest that on.

    You want to know what really is a bad precedent? Allowing an offense to be committed consistently. That's it. Stop allowing it. Ban the people who do it. Dragon should be banned. Its that simple. There shouldn't have to be a warning to stop breaking the rules when the rules are already clear.