LGBTQ+ Rights / Similar Discussion

@Darth#11255

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If every republican votes against it, then yes, that's how it is.

Have you taken a political science 101 course? I'm assuming you have, but your "that's how it is" comment seems to speak to the contrary. Of course "that's how it is" systemtically, but taking the context of this conversation into account, it's obvious that we're not talking systemics, but politics.

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Unity among the people, and the first major legislation was a bill that has support from the majority of americans.

This is false. He has stated a multitude of times that Republican and Democratic lawmakers should come together and has met with plenty on structuring (e.g.) the stimulus plan.

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In theory a good idea, but if you piss off Manchin too much he could resign, a republican would be appointed to his seat,

Do you honestly believe this? That a sitting senator would just resign, because the sitting President "forces" him to vote for a certain piece of legislation or he will actively campaign against him. When you get a job, are you going to resign because you disagree with your boss? This, while also assuming that a republican would indeed be appointed to his seat, which is nowhere near a certainty.

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Because you cannot strongarm someone who has all the leverage

Except Biden clearly has the political leverage in that his favourability far outweighs a (fairly disliked) senator like Manchin. You speak of these vague notions, but then continue to back them up with circular reasoning.

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Americans needed help now,

That "now" was 2 months ago when Biden claimed checks would go out "immediatedly".

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and while not ideal, it's better in the long run to make concessions and live to fight another day than risk stalling the bill further.

That's how you shift the overton window further right by conceeding. This was an example under Bill Clinton, Obama and is already an example under Biden. Again, Obamacare was originally a Republican-plan. So no, it is not "better in the long run" and there is more than ample evidence to the contrary.

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the Republicans will oppose anything that Democrats want out of spite"

I would assert that this is a lazy interpretation of the these events for the last 10-20 years. If you can gain more political power by simply opposing legislation proposed by the opposing party, then the obvious choice is to do so, and that's what the GOP has been doing thus far, and the Democrats have continued to try and meet them half-way. If two parties are pulling a rope, but then one of the parties decides to meet the other party halfway down the rope, then the other party keeps (gets) more rope.
Biden is just as bad as Manchin when it comes to "bipartisanship". There is next to nothing good that has come out of bipartisanship.

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Still, Biden clearly learned his lesson from his VP days. When the Democrats were crafting the stimulus bill to ease the recession, they spent months "working" with Republicans on a deal, who got the bill heavily watered down, only to vote against it anyways.

You're essentially agreeing with my point above.

ite, missa est: Biden keeps backtracking, which was to be expected of him.

@billy7oblos#11375 What does "Capitalism rules both sides" mean?

And why don't you support LGBTQ+?

@billy7oblos#11389

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both candidates are pulocarats who live off sponsorships and cooperate money (that stops them from solving problems like global warming).

Agreed. Although sponsorships is the wrong term, in essence I agree with you.

@Darth#11390

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It demonstrates that you either don't want to or are unable to understand others. LGTBQ+ is not a fetish or a mental illness, they're people with feelings, and you should respect that. If you have any valid reasons for treating your fellow humans like shit just because they don't perfectly align with your beliefs feel free to respond so I can strip them down like a cheap NYC hooker.

If you wish to argue in good faith, then perhaps it is not a good idea to extrapolate and by extension insult the other party.

@billy7oblos#11406

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right back at you buddy. everyone in lgbtq+ is a sexual deviant just like zoophiles and other "fEtIsHes". I don't "treat my fellow human being like shit", I treat criminals like criminals and that is that. LGBTQ+ includes a growing number of disgusting 'fetishes' such as maps, furrys and many more 'fetishes' we just made up. saying "its just people with feelings" is pretty stupid btw because we used to kill gays for thousands of years, and the number that we killed was similar to the number of other deviants we killed (such as people who had sex with animals). the only reason lgbtq+ is increasing is because we normalized it, just like we are normalizing pedophilia and zoophilia

This really depends on what definition of “sexual deviant” you’re going off. The APA defines it as sexual behaviour regarded as significantly different from the stanadards established by a culture or subculture. In terms of most Western civilisation that wouldn’t include homosexuality & transgenderism (they list paraphilia, voyerism & beastiality as some examples). However, if we’re going by the traditional sense of the word “deviant”, as in, something deviating from the norm, then of course you could call them deviants. I also agree with you that the LGBTQ+ movement has trouble with defining who fits underneath the blanket definition and who doesn’t. In that it is a movement with no leadership, but instead a broad grouping and cultural movement for advancing the freedoms and lives of marginalized sexualities and genders. This means, that just about anybody can claim to be apart of said grouping & movement (this including child molesters).
paiige1_ doesn’t seem to understand your argument, in that you emphazised the “+”-part of LGBTQ+ and the fact that they seem to want to be the arbiter of who fits in the movement and who doesn’t. Fact of the matter is that pedophilia and zoophilia are often viewed as being part of the LGBTQ+-grouping. This doesn’t mean that pedophilia and zoophilia should be accepted cultural norms, but instead that they are marginalized sexual groups (pedophilia doesn’t describe child molestation, but instead sexual attractions towards lil’ kiddies, and zoophilia doesn’t mean fucking your dog doggystyle). If you’re a pedophile in society (especially the US, because of poor public-funding for health & treatment services) you are shunned the moment you make it clear that you’re sexually attracted towards kids, but still wanting help to get rid of your psychiatric disorder. Just like being gay is not a choice, being a pedophile or zoophile is also not a choice.
I would like to make clear however, that feitishists, zoophiles, pedophiles and the like are the clear outskirts of the LGBTQ+-movement, and are not to be generalized as encompassing the whole grouping and movement.

@billy7oblos#11406

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the only reason lgbtq+ is increasing is because we normalized it, just like we are normalizing pedophilia and zoophilia

I want to understand you correctly. Are you insinuating that it’s a bad thing that we normalized transgenderism and homo- and bisexuality + non-binarism? Or are you just stating it as a matter of fact that these things has become more prominent today due to societal acceptance? On the end note: I think it’s a vast oversimplification to claim that society is normalizing pedophilia and zoophilia. If you mean in terms of getting treatment for their disorder, then I guess, but again, I wouldn’t count the US. If you mean in terms of acceptance for either sexuality, then I implore you to actually find mainstream articles that would be an example of this, because I highly disagree with this notion.

videogamesm12

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Minor Attracted Persons are not associated with LGBTQ+ at all.

False. See comments above.

videogamesm12#11408

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Comparing LGBTQ+ to zoophilia and pedophilia is an absolutely retarded assessment. Sucking another person's dick is hardly as bad as someone fucking a dog or a predator grooming a child.

You’re being uncharitable to his argument. He said that as LGBTQ+ is being culturally normalized actual (sexual) deviations such pedophilia and zoophilia are getting normalized by extension. He never made the comparison between fellatio and doggystyle or kid-fuking.

@billy7oblos#11410

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that being said, gay sex is just as unnatural and disgusting as sex with an animal (consent issues? ok a dead animal).

Are you serious lol

@Darth#11413

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According to who?

According to the 69+ (nice) countries in the whole criminalizing same-sex relations between consenting adults.

@Darth#11413

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You implied it. LGTBQ+ is not a fetish, and certainly doesn't include pedophiles or bestiality.

You don’t get to make that distinction.

@Darth#11413

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Actually the number of people that would fall under LGTBQ+ has stayed relatively constant throughout history. It's only recently that they have recieved more representation, as people become more educated on those topics.

False and there is no way you could assess this empirically. As society and culturally we accept sexualities differing from the norm the more people will embrace their sexuality meaning a gradual increase in LGBTQ+. Nobody knows what percentage of the population will be LGBTQ+ once society and culturally we have “completely accepted” (whatever that means) those sexualities and groupings.

@paiige1_#11423

Fine if that's your personal opinion opinion, but that's not how it's broadly percieved. I could say that it's my personal opinion that all steak comes from a cow, but that's not necessarily true in the general sense.

@hammelhopfan#11442 everybody who's trans aren't suffering fom dysphoria.